EU renegotiation post

@Edward_Caplen @andrewdwilliams I thought a new topic to hash out a statement on the EU negotiations would be a good thing. I’m busy preparing for a talk right now, but feel free to stick ideas together here for a post.

I posted http://www.diem25.org/ the other day, that might be of interest.

Manifesto elements on the EU are here. My view on our stance is:

  • Being part of the EU is a good thing (stronger together, etc)
  • The world’s not getting less globalised, so we have to think internationist.
  • National borders are becoming ever less important.
  • BUT the EU needs to be more efficient, more democratic, and more accountable.

I think that aligns with DiEM, but I’ve not read the details of their site yet.

Having just read http://www.diem25.org/manifesto.htm, I think it’s pretty on-target with our stated aims.

I suggest doing a post with bullet points, say “This is what David Cameron has achieved so far (bullet points), however this is what we want and require. (Bullet points)”

Here’s the thing with the EU - the biggest issue, in my view, is democracy and accountability. That’s what we should push for. The European Parliament having more power and the unelected bodies having less power. Also, potentially, turning some of the unelected bodies, such as President of the European Council, into elected bodies.

I think the DiEM thing is one to keep our eyes on. It’s not doing much at the moment, but it likely will in the future. If we have to come down on the EU referendum, I would say stay, but on the condition that in the future radical reforms would have to be made, and if they are not made, we should not be afraid of leaving and starting over again with an EU 2.0. If some issues are too hard to solve because they are ingrained, then we should join with others, and I’m sure there are others that would join, to create a new European project.

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Yep, I agree with that.

Personally I also think that separate nations should get to vote on what effects them and what they want to see. Since I feel it’s a tad undemocratic for potentially 3 other nations to get to decide on law and regulation in another nation but then that’s my opinion but then I am personally anti-EU when it comes to that I don’t think it ever will change it’s too large. So it does depend on the deal we get offered by the EU at the end of the day which way I’ll vote but that one would go a long way to making me think it’s worth staying.

Andrew, I actually think that is an excellent idea, propose a union based upon trade and anti-war values and of mutual defence in a new EU 2.0 would be wonderful.

I personally think we should put our stance as neutral until we get a final format for what we consider adequate or not.

So as a general rule of thumb I think we should definitely push for it however point out that we won’t be accepting anything short of what we think is real progress and that we will seriously consider both sides before making an official party line on the referendum. However that is my current point of view, that could change. But as I have said previously this is your party and ultimately your choice.

Current manifesto policy is to remain in the EU, but at the same time campaign on a number of areas that need improving. See http://somethingnew.org.uk/manifesto/foreign_policy.html#european-union. As the manifesto is open, of course, that’s subject to change, but the place to do that is through the edit process.

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Fair enough, I am personally anti-EU but I would suggest making a post in line with party policy which is stronger together as it may seem. However I do think we should make demands and if these demands are not made change official policy in accordance with that result or keep it the same. However like I said that’s your area. :slight_smile:

I think @andrewdwilliams was drafting something, so we’ll see what he comes up with. That was half me and half him on Facebook by the way, we were both responding in the same conversation as the page identity. Confusing, sorry :smiley:

Speaking of facebook would it be alright if I added the both of you to make correspondents easier for non-party related enquires we can post the screen shots on here if they become relevant to discussion? Just a musing I had. :slight_smile:

· Here is a post I have prepared for the facebook page on the EU. I kept the post in line with the party manifesto on being pro-Europe despite my differences I hope this helps. :slight_smile:

In light of recent events it is important that Something New gets its position on the EU across clearly, so here is what we want to see in a reformed European Union:

  1. We would like to see unhelpful and wasteful bureaucracy reduced.

  2. Major reform or removal of the Common Agricultural Policy, to operate in harmony with the natural environment and remove market distortions.

  3. Britain is clearly stronger within the EU, however we must remain outside of the Eurozone due to a one-currency continent being harmful to democratic decisions of member states.

  4. Reform on fishing policy and quotas to reduce waste thus helping fish stocks to recover from inappropriate regulations, which are harmful to the industry.

  5. Reform emissions trading scheme

  6. Increase transparency and democratic control within the EU to ensure the European Union remains a progressive democratic force as opposed to a regressive one.

  7. A reduction in inefficiency for example by abolishing the Strasbourg EU parliament making Brussels the permanent home for the European Parliament. This would also help to decrease bureaucracy and cost.

We respect and understand that many people are Eurosceptic and with good reason, however it is a difficult choice but if we do choose to stay the battle is not over and we hope that all peoples from diverse political backgrounds will help us in pushing for positive change within the EU for a better and more secure future.

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Maybe then create an EU reform campaign link that includes these demands?

I think that Ed, nice work! Maybe I’d change the Eurozone comment slightly to: “we would prefer to remain outside of the Eurozone, as recent developments have shown that monetary union can be harmful to democratic decisions of member states.”

I think it’s also worth linking to DiEM25 as well in there, as a wider campaign for EU reform and democracy.

I wonder if it’s worth adding a comment on Cameron’s opt out of the “ever closer union” part of the EU. This may be somewhere where we have significant differences though, and I’m not sure our position is 100% clear.

Incidentally, I’m offline a lot today, but I’ll get this online as soon as I can and we can spread it around.

Should we have some sort of shareable image to go along with this? I’m thinking something along the lines of a picture of a connected globe (network thing) along with the sentiment that Something New thinks we’re better off in the EU, because the world isn’t getting less connected…

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That sounds good to me. :slight_smile:

I think it would be very much worth linking the website as well! :slight_smile: